FS: Hella 118 Five Rivet Clear Driving Lights

[Dave Awesome]

By the way, who is "we"?

We includes me. I also would like to see the inside.

[enoz05]

We includes me. I also would like to see the inside.

As requested, a picture from the inside

SV107571.jpg

[70SATMan]

Thanks. Are you interested in what I see and my opinion of these being factory?

[rgupta250]

Yes, Michael. We are interested in what you see. Please share.

[cbpiii]

I would like to hear your opinion. I have my view, but I don’t have your depth of knowledge.

Bert

[enoz05]

I have heard from a good and respectful source that these are very good quality reproductions and that the asking price is correct.

[BOYER73S]

Here we go again......NOS means New Old Stock

Perhaps you should modify your ad and apologise to this member who pointed out what they actually were, and to Michael while your at it.

[70SATMan]

Yes, Michael. We are interested in what you see. Please share.

There are several differences between the regular aftermarket version of the H3 118 and the version that Hella made for Porsche. The obvious difference being the fifth rivet. That fifth rivet is for the hot lead standoff and only shows up in the H3 light and it’s to secure the H3 bulb lead to Wiring Harness hot connection. Who wants that wiring rattling around in the case???

The factory H1 light for the Italian market doesn’t have the fifth rivet because there is no bulb wire lead. The wiring harness connects directly to the bulb and is secure. This example shown here has non standard staking of the rivet and is using the later of the two versions of the standoff. So, it’s got the standoff but, hard to tell whether original. I’m leaning toward “built”.

Another difference is the wiring hole size. Aftermarket is easy to identify. Single wire size only. The Porsche factory harness is two wire, hence the larger hole. Can’t tell on this light whether the swivel mount was originally cast with the larger hole or if the hole was enlarged. Easy to do, I’ve modified many sets for use with the factory wiring. I’ve seen the TN4 and DOT casting markings used on NOS factory 118s so, that’s not really a tell. I don’t know if the current repros went to that detail. However, there is something missing here with the case to mount riveting. The Factory 118s have an ADDITIONAL ground spade attached using one of the four case rivets. That is where the factory ground wire of the harness attaches. Porsche didn’t rely on the chassis connections of the swivel mounts. This light is missing that ground spade. The factory 118 H1 lights while not having the the fifth rivet, DO have the additional ground. Only seen when you open the light.

On to differences between early and later Hella 118s in general. Believe me, there are differences in the case backs for the top trim tab and the lower alignment tabs… suffice to say, this case back is the later style.

The lens type along with the reflector type is a big tell. The first H3 lights offered had separate lens and reflectors with a rubber seal between the two. Also, the lenses used the single line type Hella logo and this was right around the time when European agencies started requiring the safety markings in the lenses. Also the fluting in the center had differences. Early fluting was less number of flutes and deeper, heavier. So, lense type with the fine fluting in the center, all of the safety markings and double line logo is the later style. . The font of the numbering is just so very slightly off. I know right away when a lens is a repro vs original. This type of lense wasn’t seen with the separate reflectors.

The early reflectors used the cast bulb housings like these here. I know some of the reproductions I’ve seen use a cast bulb holder. Later production went to a stamped steel bulb holder. Distinctly different look. So, again an early reflector with a later lense. I’d really need these in hand to determine whether they were original. The finish of the reflector on the backside is later. The early reflector's finish was an olive green with a varnish over that.


Again I’ll mention related to these particular lights the lense style. Within the 68-73 MY use of these lights on our cars, Hella went from the separate lense and reflector to a SEALED lens and reflector assembly. The timing of the change seems to line up with the change to the Hella logo (double line), the fine fluting in the center of the lenses which would have been included in the safety certifications (markings on the lens) and ALL of the sealed versions had the stamped steel bulb holders in the reflectors. Interestingly enough, my observations are that the factory lights had the black parkerize finish on the bulb shield and aftermarket invariably had the shiny zinc plate. Don’t know the reason for that. All of the early cast bulb centers I’ve ever seen or had used the shiny zinc.

I could go on with reflector marking difference, blah blah blah. So in summary, what tipped me on these lights??

Repro later lenses using the separate reflector with cast bulb shield. Missing interior ground spade. Later hot lead standoff.

The swivel mount hardware is much later. The T bolt and swivel bolts aren’t even good repro. I don’t usually quibble about that because again Porsche used specialized hardware for the mounts.

Last outward appearance item of the non factory light and its small,,, The trim bezel hold down clamp. On the factory lights, they are a thin spring steel. Aftermarket uses a thick mild steel like is seen on these.

So,,, are these repros or a set of built up lights using some factory and some repro?? Can’t tell with the limited pictures. I’m leaning toward an original Hella case that has been modified and using some repro parts. If the reproductions have the additional ground spade inside, that would seal my opinion.

Long winded but, there ya go,,

Like any manufacturer, Hella was streamlining production. Materials, processes, finishes. I think narrowing the timeline of all the changes to specific years aligning with the MY years of our cars is a fools game. But, knowing what is correct and what is correct TOGETHER helps us determine the originality.

[911MRP]

I agree with Clyde’s comment. Thank you for the comprehensive explanation of the nuances. Details of what is authentic original do matter to some. Not just lights

Important on ESR that knowledgable folks call out “guff” based on facts when claims made are incorrect by sellers. Also important that when things are challenged that facts and evidence will come out. I’ve seen (and experienced) examples where a valid factual challenge to a sale listing based on evidence is side-stepped by taking debate personal rather than as it should be responding factually — behaviour which if it becomes the norm and tolerated is to the detriment of the forum.

Steve

[72targa]

Closing this ad so as to not lose the discussion but to allow it to be relisted based on the details established.