Ultimate ST thread

[Eric Gratz]

Larrousse? at 1972 Mont Ventoux, car #31, SN apparently 9111300612. Pictures from caradisiac, also posted previously by Hugh Hodges here

https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...l=1#post992254




https://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/to...mment-38195372

These look to be the same car but with the MEZNARIE band across the windshield visible and a different number plate from the Tour de France picture on the JCK site.





https://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/to...mment-38196103

[HughH]

This is an interesting car which I have never been able to get a documented history for. What I have is similar in some places to what was posted on Pbase but not quite the same - as is common with a number of cars that passed through Meznarie's hands / workshop

I understood it was originally Larousse's "company car" as a factory race driver (although the claim that it was a "press car" may be correct but all of the "company cars" were recorded as a part of the "press and sport" department in Porsche's records). It was originally Tangerine but then was painted in what (I was told by Meznarie) was "blue" but looks like silver in photos - maybe because they were over exposed or his memory was failing??.

It then went to France in 1972 with a "brand new" 2.5 engine which was not its original engine.
I have the same competition history as shown in PBase:
1972 Mont Ventoux, car n°31, driver : Gérard Larrousse, result : 1st in gr.4
1972 Tour de France (Grand National), car n°378, driver : Alibelli & Berthet, result : 1st over all

At Mont Ventoux it was wearing registration plate 4833 QC 91 which belonged to one of Meznarie's cars 9110101605. That licence plate was also used on 911 030 0949 for the 1971 Tour De France for "customs reasons" - ie that car was not officially registered in France so they did not have to pay customs duty. Maybe the plates were used on this car for a similar reason however this swapping plates for "tax" and other reasons makes it hard to follow a cars history.

It was registered in France by Meznarie as7890 QP 91 and I have it as "sold to Europsport on November 19 1975. At the time of selling it had the matriculation plate 7890 QP 91"
Before he passed I was told that Meznarie "believed" that "it ended up in La Martinique. It could be that this car was severely damaged" (which was a reference to what happened (or not) to 9110300950). whatever the facts one of the ex works cars was apparently damaged beyond repair (at that time) in a big accident and there is no clarity on which one it was due to the practice of switching plates on cars for events for "tax" and other reasons at the time

[Eric Gratz]

Hugh,

JCK listed the license plate for 911130612 as S-Z 7670 on PBase Have you come across this plate before? In a similar vein, has a serial number been established for S-Z 7940?

https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...l=1#post557091


Regards,
Eric

[HughH]

Eric
No I have not come across that one - but not surprising if it was Larousse's company car - would have been more likely to come across it as a press car as they were photographed and published

I am 99% certain that S Z 7940 was 911 130 0558

[Leirbag]

There is this page on the website of the Porsche RS Club of France, which pays tribute to Louis Meznarie a few months after his death.

Here is the french link : https://porscheclubrsdefrance.com/re...sa-carriere/4/


And here is the translation of the website : https://porscheclubrsdefrance-com.tr..._x_tr_pto=wapp



There is quite a bit of information that does not fit with pbase, borderline contradictory. In any case, 0612 is mentioned as the car in the 1972 4H of Le Mans with Sylvain Garant (pbase says it was 911 010 1605). And Meznarie's grey 911 is mentioned as 0642 (911 130 0642 ??)...

[HughH]

On the 1972 4 hour race I agree with Pbase but it is clear that with swapping plates, having incorrect information about vin and engine numbers on event entry forms (at least in one occasion that I am aware of) it is very hard to tie down "the facts"
I was told (second hand) from Meznarie in 2016 after I sent some questions to him about 9110300949 and the plates it was wearing which were "borrowed" from Meznarie's T that " at le mans 4 hour in 1972 (Louis Meznarie (F)) Sylvain Garant according to Meznarie this is his T chassis 911 01 01 605) that Louis had prepared for competition and that he rented it here and there."
this is it in that event


That Porsche RS club de France article is a very good source although I think that there are some inaccuracies (but possibly due to memory lapses) and I especially like the part about him building the race engine from the 914/6 block which went into 9110101605

[_gonbau]

I barely have time to post a message, JCK has made a new update with 2 other cars:


- original Bonomelli 1972 911 S car : chassis 002 0005

- Normandy 911 that race 3 times the Tour de France Automobile : 911 030 1046

Does 0005 qualify as a vehicle of a private runner in its main stage? Not as an S/T factory, correct?

[HughH]

[QUOTE=Leirbag;1178270]I barely have time to post a message, JCK has made a new update with 2 other cars:


- original Bonomelli 1972 911 S car : chassis 002 0005

it is worthwhile looking at his page and comments on RSR 9113601159: an un raced USA car but the 002 0005 car was sold as that vin in 2008 at Bonhams and has only recently been returned to its vin 002 0005 which WAS the car with the amazing race history purported to be 1159 in the sale https://pbase.com/archive_racing_porsche/n_911_360_1159

[davep]

JCK says about 002 0005 : "Specs : built by Bonomelli with new ST bodyshell from factory"

As well, on the 3.0L RSR part : "Some more original bodyshell 3.0 RSR were deliver to professional teams like Kremer, Meznarie, Almeras, Tam Auto, Wicky & Bonomelli."

In this case, all of them had special numbers, just like Meznarie : 006 0015

002 0005 & 006 0015 are body production numbers, also known as production order numbers. These numbers were stamped on the body below the radio opening on the lower part of the dash usually hidden by the knee pad; and also handwritten in lumber crayon on the cowl. Normal production bodies and production order numbers for standard cars have a leading 1. A leading 0 indicates a replacement body shell. The next digit, 0, indicates a coupe body type. The third digit is the model year of production. So, yes, a lot of race cars were built on replacement bodies to save time and cost. Replacement bodies were available from the early days when Porsche supplied Beutler with basic chassis on which cabriolets were built.

[_gonbau]

JCK says about 002 0005 : "Specs : built by Bonomelli with new ST bodyshell from factory"

As well, on the 3.0L RSR part : "Some more original bodyshell 3.0 RSR were deliver to professional teams like Kremer, Meznarie, Almeras, Tam Auto, Wicky & Bonomelli."

In this case, all of them had special numbers, just like Meznarie : 006 0015


If you want to read the chassis number, just as a standart one, I think it is " The 5th chassis repaired/furnished/restored by Porsche in 1972", or in Meznarie 3.0L RSR case : "The 15th chassis repaired/furnished/restored by Porsche in/of 1976"



On this type of numbers, can we count 911 230 0769 ? or 911 230 0869 ? Maybe more ?



Another question, why did Bonomelli used a, old VIN number on his car in 1975 ? My theory is maybe because the Belgian owner in 1975 (source : JCK) may not want to buy a non-standart VIN car...

Thank you for that response, it caught my attention. If it was factory-built, the type of electrical cut in the front part and not where the factory mounted it in '72 near the front glass.