Not a barn find but another one will be saved!

[AlexJ]

Well, not so much to say about this project.

All the work that I have been doing has been related to investigate which possibilities I have to build this car.

I know that at first I thought to restore it to stock condition but at that time I didn't have the information I have today...

I have been collecting some body parts (steel) and the only one missing is the front bumper. I have been contacting many people, there are 2 or 3 that would fit but... still waiting for pictures and prices.

After my research I have come to a decision (hope it is the last! ):

What do you guys think about a recreation/interpretation of this:



The idea is to build a cost effective T/R reproduction/recreation/interpretation, under FIA rules. I want to put some added value on the car and I think this could be achieved under the competition theme, instead of the investment I had to do to restore it stock condition.

I could take the advantage of the rear flares - I know it is not the same but it gives a racing look as well - so I don't have to buy the rear quarters.

Some fiberglass should be added - rear bumper, engine lid, front bonnet. Plexiglas windows all around and some more items to save some weight.

Latter I will post some more specs. I hope some of you can give me a good advice.

[AlexJ]

I also would like to have some advice on braking power.
Here in the island roads are very twisty with lots of climbing and descending, so braking power is very important.

Any idea what possible up-grades considering FIA regulation for historics?

Another issue is the engine.... I have been reading a lot here and in other forums and it looks like getting some power out of the 2.0 L engines is not an easy task.
I think the car will be competitive only if the engine reaches around 180 Hp...
At the same time, its important to assume that the budget is a problem on this project, although I know that some investment has to be done to improve its performance... and also the limitation from FIA rules, have to be considered.

With FIA limitations, I will have to keep engine’s capacity and cylinder heads...

If anyone has experience on this kind of project, I would like to hear his opinion.

Regarding its transmission, I will have to gear it on a rally perspective, adding an LSD. I have heard the gears are easy to get and there are a lot of combinations available.
Considering that I achieve 180 hp on the engine. Does the stock drive shafts handle this power, or should be upgraded?

Suspension: my car came with Koni shocks. I do not know its specification but, can anyone tell me if they can be upgraded to rally use? Or should I buy something new and more developed?
Reading the "Sports purpose" catalogue 1st edition, there were only sway bars available for the suspension upgrade. I think that, due to FIA rules, I have to keep the same sway bar system. The referred catalogue says 15mm front and rear sway bars. Anyone knows if there are any more sizes available?

What about Torsion bars? I think that by that time, they were kept stock. As I will probably change this set-up, does anyone know which measure is recommended for rally use?

I really need some help to take some decisions and start collecting parts. So, if anyone can advise... it will be a good help!

Thanks!

[AlexJ]

After some reading of the FIA rules, I got already some conclusions:

I started already reading the regulations... but it will take some time as the documents are pretty extensive...

From now, I have already got the following conclusions:

911 T/R was homologated on the 1st of January 1968 as a Group 3.
Homologation form number 577 with 4 extensions - I will have to buy it at the National Automobile Federation and then I will find out what's on the 4 extensions.

The annex K from FIA states the following about 911 cars:

- The 901/911 short wheel base model introduced in 1963 is eligible as a GTS in period F, to the FIA homologation form nº 183 of 1965 only. (i.e. excluding subsequent extensions). From nº 503 (Weber carburetors) is only valid to period G.

- Car of period F, may use the camber adjustment facility featured on the front suspension top mounts, introduced on chassis number 302695.

The use of the parts listed bellow is permitted (GTS, Period F, homologation form numb. 183):

- Fuchs 5 1/2

- Lobro half shafts

- The 901/20 type engine, and the corresponding rocker arms, may be used only in post 1966 911R.

- 911 Carreras model G of the year 1974 and beyond may use 7 inches wheels at the front and 8 inches wheels at the rear, as supplied by the make concessionaire.

- 915 gearboxes are not allowed on 911 cars before 1972

[AlexJ]

Putting things on a more practical, considering also some advise already received from some members, I'll have:

2 liter must be kept. Although rules allow + 1 mm overbore.
I would like to go (if feasible) a little bit further than “S” cams…

Webbers 40 IDA have to be kept – a possible upgrade to IDS’s might be considered if important – need advise.

Twin ignition is also a possibility covered by the existing budget but only if it really compensates on Hp gain, considering the other engine components that will be used.

I would like to have this engine running on the 98-100 octane unleaded fuel.

Although I think the use of other brand cylinders is allowed by the rules, (as long they keep the “look” of the stock parts), I was considering to keep Biral’s (only for budget reasons) with an overbore of 81mm, changing pistons to a better quality ones, with increased CR – JE’s is a possibility.

I am thinking about an engine capable of doing more than 7500 rpm… Am I being too much optimistic?...

I also been thinking about 2.2 heads… I think this should be a possibility, specially if the final output of the engine, keeping the stock heads, is not around 170-180 hp – better not even start…

Thanks in advance for any contributors.
__________________

[CamBiscuit]

Alex - SLOW DOWN!!!

Lots of questions to answer here. In relation to the braking I'd suggest keeping the original callipers and adding new rubber brake lines, seals, racing brake fluid and good pads will be enough for your proposed use.

It would help with suggestions to know what your budget is. These cars can swallow a lot of money - ask me how I know!

In relation to the engine it may be worth looking for a complete race motor to buy rather than trying to build one from scratch. If it is to be raced then you will need to allow for additional oil cooling.

Short gears will certainly help to make the car faster allthough with a lower top end speed. The gears can either be sourced secondhand - although some are quite rare, or bought new from several retailers - Albins Gears here in Australia make the full range available.

Konis are good shocks - not sure if the type you have might be adjustable? Sway bars are available larger than 15mm but again check the rules to see what is allowable.

Torsion bars should be upgraded but in combination with the other components - i.e. the suspension should be viewed as a complete system. You do not want to run too stiff if you are looking at tarmac rally. Track settings can be a lot stiffer of course.

Hope this helps!

[AlexJ]

Hi Cam Arnott,
Thanks for your comments.
I refer to early S callipers as an alternative because the brake power here in the island is one of the most critical points – and rules allow it. In many rallys I have reach the end of the stage with the brakes on fire! It is very common here.
Regarding the engine, I agree with you: better buying an engine already done and keep the original – as my car is a matching number.
The problem is that rally engines are very hard to find – if it was a race engine, there are several options around but for rally… The few we can find cost a small fortune.
That is why I was considering collecting parts during some time (when budget allows), and start building the engine myself with some friend’s help.
It is hard for me to tell you an exact amount I have available for this project. The thing I know is exactly the things I want to avoid that could make this project become crazy expensive.
Also don’t know if this Kony shocks are adjustable – they were in car as a factory option. Any help is appreciated, in case the more experienced ones can answer this question.

Thanks again!

[Flieger]

Konis are adjustable. You must undo the top strut mount and fully compress the piston/shaft, then you will feel a little click as it engages the adjustment mechanism. Then you turn the piston rod to adjust the damping ratio.

[AlexJ]

Ha! I know those... I had a pair of those in my 73 T.
Thanks Flieger!

[AlexJ]

Well, finally get some budget to send this car to the body shop.

Here it is, already on the jig:

[AlexJ]

While I am preparing the second-hand parts I have been collecting (sand blast, correcting shape, etc.), they used some panels from another 911 they have at the shop (a 72 T).

I have been buying some new panels - retro fit front cross panel and also trunk floorpan, fuel tank support and left side fuel tank support holder. These parts were so messed that it was obvious that they had to be changed.

Today, after they have been doing some work, I've been asked to go there to see some issues on front left side...

No so good news...
The left wheel housing is completely out of place... And the bonnet doesn't align on the same side.

Seems that it will be a more complicated task... more that I was expecting!







At the right side, things look much better and I think it will not be difficult to align the panels.

Any comments are welcome.