Ten Fifty-nine

[LongRanger]

. . . next time I come across an otherwise-nice car? . . .

Before I start fixing stuff . . .


Rick Kreiskott

[LongRanger]

Not strictly a Porsche thing, but . . . .

Got a package this AM. Found this bit on-line, a couple of weeks back. Looking for one o' these for a long, long time. $450

First time I can recall seeing one --- actually two --- was at Bill Perone's old Parts Shop, in HB, CA . . . 20 years ago, maybe?, up on a wall, behind his front counter, for sale. No idea what I was looking at --- but badge was striking, more so because, like I said . . . he had two.

First One was the 'normal' one, like the ones still being made/sold today, big, green, kinda dull-looking . . . old. But the Other One? Same as the First, except . . . had a gold wreath around it. (!) Mr Perone said I could buy one or t'other --- not both. Don't recall the asking, not unreasonable, passed . . .

Collecting badges off/on over the years. The few (as in, ‘on one hand’) 'wreathed' badges that I’ve come across since have been identified as presentation pieces --- a 'normal' item dressed-up for some occasion, given as an award, commemorative. Seen very few vintage N-badges, ever --- never seen (or heard of) another wreathed. Hm.

Anyway --- Nurburgring badges are still being sold, as new, from several sources, variable quality/price. Not sure but doesn't seem like the image is even trademarked. Track was completed in 1927, no idea when this badge/image first came out --- Nurburg castle, sunburst, green hills, white bands/rings, odd iconography . . . so German. I know of two sizes --- the smaller I've only seen pictures of --- at least three makers, not current. Not really fair to just dismiss the new ones as re-productions . . . but, for me? . . . the old badges --- especially the really old ones --- are something pretty special.

Before ‘8 minutes’ and ‘The Ring’ became tag-lines for companies shilling products . . . there were Caracciola, Rosemeyer, Nuvolari, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Surtees, Stewart, Ickx . . . Ringmeisters. To have a thing from that time . . .

Like this one. ‘60s? – maybe older. Never seen this much text on the back --- of any badge. ‘Entwurf’ translates as design, ‘ausgefuhrt ‘ means 'carried-out,' 'executed.' Designer and Maker. Smooth back, compound curved, darker metal --- not bright/polished --- front and back.

1059 may not be old enough . . .

More --- from an old Pelican thread . . .

OK - quick history lesson guys from my limited knowledge of the badges - I'm sure that there are others who are more knowledgable (sic) out there.

The very early N'Ring badges from the 356 era are the really expensive ones especially if they are NOS. These were purchased at the track along with your ticket to the track and had just the name of the badge maker A.DONNER engraved on the bottom of the "wing" section of the badge . . . only the 356 crowd really appreciate the value of these - no disrespect to the non-356 crowd - they are period correct for the 356.

Later - 70's - more N'Ring badges were produced to commemorate "name" drivers who raced the Ring. Their names were inscribed on the back along with an "Adam Donner" engraving . . . modern repros, probably made in Taiwan - and the quality is OK but - you get what you pay for!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...lle-badge.html

RVK

[beh911]

Not strictly a Porsche thing, but . . . .

Got a package this AM.

That is the one badge I would add to my grill. Beautiful

[teenchy]

The very early N'Ring badges from the 356 era are the really expensive ones especially if they are NOS. These were purchased at the track along with your ticket to the track and had just the name of the badge maker A.DONNER engraved on the bottom of the "wing" section of the badge . . . only the 356 crowd really appreciate the value of these - no disrespect to the non-356 crowd - they are period correct for the 356.

It's a pretty Nürburgring badge for sure and of higher quality that what's being sold new today.

It seems a bit presumptuous that "only the 356 crowd" can appreciate them. Couldn't a 356 owner back in the day have moved the badge to a 911/912 when they replaced their 356 with one? They could've done the same with their 100000km badges which were issued during the 356 era but AFAIK weren't issued to 911/912 owners.

[LongRanger]

Turns out that Adam Donner is still in business . . .

ADAM DONNER GmbH
Wolkenburg 36
42119 Wuppertal
Germany

Phone: +49 (0)202 75 84 79 0
Fax: +49 (0)202 75 84 79 29

www: http://www.adam-donner.de/

Time for another letter.

RVK

PS Wuppertal? Family's from there . . .

[typ901]

Rick;
i know people who have tried to get historical information from Donner. all i can say is, i hope you fare better. i posted some stuff to the thread over on the bird;

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ml#post6150617

all best
jerry

[LongRanger]

. . . i posted some stuff to the thread over on the bird . . .

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ml#post6150617

Hey, Jerry . . .

That 'wreathed' N-badge . . . wow. And the little N, too . . . very nice.

Appreciate those Pelican comments, too. I suspected that my badge was very old --- I've never seen a 'designer's' citation on any badge --- never even heard of such a thing. Real curious/anxious now to see how Donner responds.

'Nother question . . . what's the material used as the base-metal for the badge? Tarnishes a lot like silver, but doesn't feel heavy . . .

etc

Rick

[Mark Morrissey]

Okay Rick, that is a cool badge. Could the metal be brass? I'd always been reluctant to spend the $ on an original. I had received a repro Nurburgring badge as a gift a few years ago. The differences are subtle but significant — the typography — notably the 'G' is totally different on the repro. And your original has the great patina over the metal that separates the enamel.

Nicely done — I must find one.

[typ901]

Hey, Jerry . . .

That 'wreathed' N-badge . . . wow. And the little N, too . . . very nice.

Appreciate those Pelican comments, too. I suspected that my badge was very old --- I've never seen a 'designer's' citation on any badge --- never even heard of such a thing. Real curious/anxious now to see how Donner responds.

'Nother question . . . what's the material used as the base-metal for the badge? Tarnishes a lot like silver, but doesn't feel heavy . . .

etc

Rick

hi Rick;
pretty sure the base metal is copper or bronze ... or some variant thereof. they are then plated silver (or gold, depending) & quite often found w/ a clear lacquer-like finish over the top. the '65 piece is the only one i've ever seen utilizing the 'Ring logo as the main motif. the usual method is to incorporate a small version of that or simply include an outline of the track.
jerry

[LongRanger]

Okay Rick . . . I'd always been reluctant to spend the $ on an original. I had received a repro Nurburgring badge as a gift a few years ago. The differences are subtle but significant — the typography — notably the 'G' is totally different on the repro . . . I must find one.

Hey, Mark . . .

I don' wanna de-rail this thread too much, but this particular topic of Nurburgring badges --- and identifying Real Stuff, in general --- touches the basic sub-text for this whole thread . . . why I come here, write, show pictures, give prices.

Like a lot of things, I held back buying a Nurburgring badge for years . . . 'cause I didn't really know what to look for exactly . . . only kinda. When I stop an' think about --- I still don't . . . but I will tell everyone what I've done, what I was thinking . . . and why.

So, here goes . . .

1) The first and biggest thing that caught my eye about this badge was the back, for two reasons.
-- a. It's smooth. I don't know when the Makers stopped doing it, but all of my older badges have smooth, finished-looking backs. The pebbley/pimpley-backed ones seem to've come later
-- b. The citation of a designer --- I've never seen this and, even if the badge wasn't a genuine vintage bit, that citation alone would've been worth it

2) The next thing that I noticed was the finish of the metal
-- a. All of the metal surfaces, front and back, are uniformly dull, and whatever polish or plating that was ever there has mellowed/worn-off . . . like an old coin
-- b. the metal separating the colors on the face . . .
--_-- i. . . . is roughly the same level as all the surrounding applied enamel
--_-- ii. . . . has a subtle roughness to it --- not polished or chromed . . . almost ground

3) The two mounting eyelets (--- tabs, now) on the sides have a delicate raised relief to them, on their outer edge. This badge appears to have been mounted at one time --- one of the tabs is a bit smooshed --- but this raised detail is still visible, isn't present on most of the N-badges that I've seen

4) Whole badge has a slight but noticeable compound-convex curve when viewed from the front. I've seen lots o' flat(ter) badges

5) Once I got my hands on it, something else --- thicker in the middle, thins-out out at it's edges. Lot of my other vintage badges are thick, stout, like coins, more uniform. Not this one. Thing also has a small sorta depression in the middle, where the citations are, then gets surprisingly thin/delicate towards the rim, fragile-looking/feeling

6) And lastly, the font --- I didn't notice it until you mentioned it, Mark, but I think that you nailed it . . . those 'G's are definitely squared-off, compared to the curvier/more stylized 'art-deco' ones found on others. Great call

And just so to be clear --- I still have no idea if this is anything genuine. Or not.

Hope these pictures and comments --- for what they're worth --- will be helpful for anyone searching for one of these bits. 'Kinda stuff doesn't make the car any faster or more reliable . . . but does add a neat little detail . . . the kind that I catch myself looking for.

RVK