Ultimate ST thread

[MPST]

Perhaps to return to the topic of how many STs there were and are.
A few cars were built in the factory according to customer specifications (i) and some were rebuilt in the factory (ii).

However, compared to the 2.8 and 3.0 RSRs, the build-up of the ST has never really been documented, as both (i) and (ii) were only ever conversions and not official production models.
models.

There is a list of cars that were built at the factory, the list was compiled by a Mr. B. and also frequently adjusted by him over the years. Certificates were produced in the name of Porsche, some of which were poorly researched or not researched at all, how could they be? After all, there was no basis for research other than that of Mr B.

Cars were confirmed as original from the "factory" and sold at auctions, even if the vehicle was demonstrably still in the possession of the first owner.... For the most part, the certificates of authenticity were issued without ever seeing the cars or researching the change of ownership.

Today, people like to keep things quiet, but most experts know about the problems and that's why STs sell so badly at auctions or are quietly cancelled afterwards.

As someone who is partly affected by the whole thing, I think we should take the STs for what they have always been: Hot Rod's of the 70's.
All customized, and some from the factory.

[matteo68]

If this is the case, and to make a comparison, why were the 55 2.8 RSRs of the following year so comprehensively and definitively recorded when they too had no unique VIN number and, just like the 2.5 S-R of ‘72, were differentiated from the 2.7 RS purely by specifying option M491 (racing version)?

[_gonbau]

From my thoughts... I know things are hidden but why? if it is real and there is no doubt why I write hide? If no one hid, all the fake cars would come out very quickly and many other things would be known... the problem, I think, is when one of those owners has acquired one of those cars thinking that it is 100% genuine....then no it is so much .... then you have to hide part of the story ....

[matteo68]

I think the 21 ‘72 911 S M491 option factory-built customer cars are pretty much all accounted for and cannot be disputed (I know all their VIN numbers and first owners off the top of my head). However the 2.3s are probably more difficult because they were ‘only’ converted 911 S cars using various kits supplied by the factory and therefore cannot be documented in the same way. IMO.

[_gonbau]

are perfectly documented? I don't remember seeing a clean list of the Vins S/T 1972. I suppose that linking the data that exists can be obtained correctly but not in this post or anywhere have I seen that they openly say that they are these and these.... I'm wrong? Does anyone have the courage to mention those 21, here... now?

[matteo68]

0495 Polak
0550 Kinnunen
0538 Keyser
0818 Sindel
0870 Strahle
0872 Schiller
0908 Schickentanz
0909 Zbinden
0910 Nordrhein
0921 Helmick
0934 Krizalla
0955 Loos (my research reveals it was actually Chrzanowski)
0983 Hahn
0987 Bartels
1019 Gargallo
1144 SonAuto
1155 Feustel
1195 Fischhaber
1328 Moritz
1417 Grieder
1687 Stone

21

[_gonbau]

0495 Polak
0550 Kinnunen
0538 Keyser
0818 Sindel
0870 Strahle
0872 Schiller
0908 Schickentanz
0909 Zbinden
0910 Nordrhein
0921 Helmick
0934 Krizalla
0955 Loos (my research reveals it was actually Chrzanowski)
0983 Hahn
0987 Bartels
1019 Gargallo
1144 SonAuto
1155 Feustel
1195 Fischhaber
1328 Moritz
1417 Grieder
1687 Stone

21

Thank you for being so precise and brief in the list. I think...this clean listing does the post good!
these st have VIN sorted.....but does that mean the production dates as well? Or for example the 495 left the factory after others despite being "the first on the list"?
what is the last clue of the gargallo?
*from that list... the 0550 would be the "first" S/T made in 72?
+
Looking at the 955 I found these photos. The first is the "typical" white S/T but seen from another profile. I do not remember seeing the photo here, my memory fails me I guess since I think it is an interesting photo and easy to find. The other image of the pilot that you mention... I don't know what car it will be but maybe and because of the relationship I'm posting it. The photos belong to the following Flickr



detail in the photo of the ST .... Has the hole been made but is not "inserted the battery cut"? If this is so...at what time was this system installed?



https://www.flickr.com/photos/182600...6/52224650401/

very good photos of other s/ts... and the one shown above with the gas cap, etc...

[matteo68]

Production numbers and completion dates I am still working on for my database. I don’t have a great deal of information on these yet but I do know that 0538 was completed in January ‘72 (the Thomas Imhof book ‘2.5 ST Camera Car’ confirms but I don’t have it to hand at the moment). I also know 0955 was delivered on 01/03/72 by Porsche dealer Schulz of Dusseldorf but there are still a lot of blanks to fill in.

In terms of all ‘72 MY 911 S coupes (including those ordered with M471 and/or M491 options), the relevant VIN number as at the end of December 1971 was 0489, so all 21 M491 S were completed from 01/01/72 onwards.

[_gonbau]

Production numbers and completion dates I am still working on for my database. I don’t have a great deal of information on these yet but I do know that 0538 was completed in January ‘72 (the Thomas Imhof book ‘2.5 ST Camera Car’ confirms but I don’t have it to hand at the moment). I also know 0955 was delivered on 01/03/72 by Porsche dealer Schulz of Dusseldorf but there are still a lot of blanks to fill in.

In terms of all ‘72 MY 911 S coupes (including those ordered with M471 and/or M491 options), the relevant VIN number as at the end of December 1971 was 0489, so all 21 M491 S were completed from 01/01/72 onwards.

check the dates! Great information that you are showing! I have never made a document that relates the dates etc... I think, that is quite important. I was completely unaware that 955 had been delivered "so early"

[MPST]

Nice list of first owner and list of car, but how how many exist two or three times?
If you can't trust the source of the data you are lost.

I know from first hand, that even Porsche today is quite unhappy about the situation and the originality of the cars including certificates.