Are These Authentic Sports Seats in a 1972 911T?

[Longballa]

Clearly has S trim. I'd need to see the gauges and a lot more photos. Brakes, suspension, sway bars etc.......

[recarno]

I'm on the road at the moment, so I only looked at the pictures on my cell phone: Quickly = the headrests have a strange shape, the seats have definitely been through a lot (look at the scars on the hinge)... other than that, a lot of things have already been done said to the beautiful car. oh yes: happy new year! regards uwe

[dirk07]

Looks like 72/73 seats, at least partly restored, post 11/72 double locker bases and pre 1/72 belts.
The bases are a safety plus. I would keep the combo as is.

[swish77]

Clearly has S trim. I'd need to see the gauges and a lot more photos. Brakes, suspension, sway bars etc.......

Yes, it has the S appearance package from the factory. I just checked the original bill of sale. That option didn’t show up on the Porsche COA for some reason.

I'm on the road at the moment, so I only looked at the pictures on my cell phone: Quickly = the headrests have a strange shape, the seats have definitely been through a lot (look at the scars on the hinge)

Can you be more specific about the head rests? I just compared them to photos of known authentic examples online, and they look identical, allowing for slight variations because they’ve clearly been reupholstered.

[BOYER73S]

They are double locker and have the hole/wire support for the seatbelt light in the base, which I believed makes them a ‘73 MY. I think double locker for sport seats started Oct 72. These look totally legit, and by themselves are probably worth $8K to $10K. These are sought after seats and you should be very happy to have them in a ‘72!

With what I have learned lately I concur, October 72 onwards double locker updates for a 73 year model

[911MRP]

Not sure double locked rolled out in all country markets immediately at October 72 but don’t (yet) have the hard documentary evidence. Porsche served multiple country markets and equipment varied. That’s because vehicle regulations differed by country.

Seats for many markets beyond NA didn’t have the seatbelt warning in 73.

Some country markets eg UK didn’t have seatbelt receptacles mounted durectly on sport seat frame for (the first part of) or all model 73 — instead cars had three threaded belt mounts direct in car chassis. These were used with static belts fabric all three ends for part of model 73. A fact that might be relevant to seat ms used.

Reason being the UK was still subject to BS AU 48 regulation which specified mounting of belts for vehicles imported to ir built in UK so 911 through at least to end of model 73. Aluminium plate signify compliance in front slam in all UK model 73. The cars had threaded provision in the centre tunnel and inner sill (rockers) for mounting belts compliance through to December 72

That belt and mount configuration might be somewhat less reliant on the seat remaining locked compared to when belt receiver is mounted on seat frame.

A new, different, regulation came in roughly around same time. This regulation was pertaining to the belt design and features — not the belt mount. Among other things it required seat belts to be of a type driver and passenger could put on and take off seat belt one handed. The old three point static with all end fabric static couldn’t be fitted one handed had to be phased out as no longer compliant — however still seen by December in UK. Number of cars have it to December 72. Seats without the seatbelt mount didn’t need the bracket for the receiver until the revised belts became mandatory in the UK market. Other markets may have been similar.

Porsche being famously frugal might have consumed the inventory of earlier seats without the receptacle mount and the full double locker before went fully to the locker where it could. UK being one market example due to BS AU42. Certainly by springtime we see double locker in UK; possibly as early as January. There were only roughly 550 911 sold in UK in model year 73 so small volume October up to Dec /jan are in the period if interest. Maybe some other markets.

Since I don’t have the documented evidence other than trainsporting unmolested examples and that is unreliable as proof - so it is just a working theory. It might remain so, but investigating. Ideally I’d like to find documentation but that would require access to German and Porsche GB archives.

My unproven hunch might explain the period between Oct to about the start new calendar year 73 where in some markets see some interim sports seats ( meaning those with pivot but without the full double locker) still being used up until beginning of new calendar year. I reiterate certainly not ( yet) proven.

Cars like this post where seats have been swapped. I’d expect USA market got full double lockers promptly as there was a lot of focus in complying with improved road safety agenda driven . This particular thread is about 73 seats that seem to be USA market with double locker, seatbelt mount, provision for seatbelt warning have their way into an my comments are about the introduction date and roll out of double locking mechanism more generally. Ok
Beyond seats and seatbelts plenty of examples exist of other equipment not always the same in various markets or rolled out in a single date aligned way across different country markets. Plastic fuel tanks, space saver , spoiler being some of the more known examples around 73 wheee safety had a bearing in what dune in some markets different. Perhaps also true of double locker rollout in practice?

There might be a better thread for this working theory but piping up was triggered Clyde’s comment here on date. He might have recently become convinced on October 72 is “one size fits all date” for the double locker but i’m not. The configuration and supercession of multinational OEMs product’s components is sometimes found to be not as simplistic as is first assumed. The answer often lies nog in workers doing random things ( not likely in safety critical build configuration operations even in 73) but in the complexities of different markets that would have been managed carefully with country equipment build protocols to be certain product complied where sold. I’m not a believer when some things are put down to some worker just doing something on the line — particularly unlikely in safety critical parts — I expect would’ve required formal engineering concession to vary. Perhaps not always apparent or written evidence accessible or papers even survived five decades on. Maybe the detailed sheets behind the fahzeug auftrag leaves some trail those are not available. Seat sometimes have dates stamped but that is probably not easy to build a pattern as many have been renovated or swapped.

Just my tuppenceworth — even if phased in differently it might never be established with written evidence beyond the generic one liners in the workshop manuals.

Steve

[swish77]

Very thorough answers, thanks!

So, it seems as if those sports seats are definitely authentic, but not period correct for a 1972 911 T. I've been offered this set below as an option to put in the car instead if I end up purchasing. (They need a good cleaning).

I'm on the fence. The sports seats would be more comfortable, and arguably cooler, but there's something about knowing they're not correct for a 1972 911 that would bug me a little. Maybe I'm over-thinking it.

[911E fan]

Keep the sportseats..

They are way more comfortable and prettier. They increase the value of your car big time. The comfort seats you are showing are certainly not perfect. Looks like the recliners had a shiny ugly repaint. Don’t do this to such a nice Gemini blue porsche…

Have a great 2024!

[911MRP]

It would bug me too. If the comfort are the original could use those and sell the restored sports that are not correct year and seem to have strange shape to headrests ( as noted by rocarno) — it would bug me (but not surprise me) if a restorer hadn’t done them right.

[StephenAcworth]

Buy both sets of seats …