Barn find 911 from Poland

Polish journalist and car collector Patryk Mikiciuk recently found a rusted 911. It looks like a butcher tuned 930 turbo look but in fact the VIN plate of the car show it was produced back in 1969.

https://spidersweb.pl/autoblog/porsc...tryk-mikiciuk/

Here is an article about the car on one of polish websites.

The problem with the car is the VIN number 119120692 indicates it should be a 2 liter engine car. The engine of the car is missing, but the engine number in the car documents from about 1996 matches a 2.4 liter engine! The engine number in the document is 6221466. Although the engine is missing we have a statement from a mechanic who replaced the original Kugelfischer injection with carburators in the middle 90's.

The car is a complete mystery. It had 2.4 liter engine and many visible sings it could be an competition car, but le the history in a secret in the moment. The owner thinks it could be one of Zasada's car back in the past.

Some of details are:

Have no idea how to properly call in english but the light covers are Hella SB19/SB20/SB21 ones. I was told those are rare ones used in competition cars. The lamps inserts are from a Polish bus from 80's :D

Front beam is reinforced with 2.5mm steel sheet and the towing hook is attached in the middle like in competition cars.

There are mounting points for a removed anti-roll bar and competition seatbelts.

There are some extra mounting points in the dash for gauges and probably a Halda.

The engine bay was rebuild for a bigger 2.4l engine.

Car had some major accidents. The entire roof was replaced with what we believe was a brand new factory part.

Maybe some of the members can help us to discover some of the history of the car.

Engine is from a 2.4E (Bosh MFI, no Kugelfischer, just to be pedantic) ... it looks much ado for a rust bucket ... clear, everybody would like to find a ex period competition car in a barn under tons of bondo and motor journalist are very good to create a buzz on the net for self promotion ... in that case, even if this is a Zasada's car, not so much has been left from the 60's ... good luck.

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Originally Posted by Biancaneve

Engine is from a 2.4E (Bosh MFI, no Kugelfischer, just to be pedantic) ... it looks much ado for a rust bucket ... clear, everybody would like to find a ex period competition car in a barn under tons of bondo and motor journalist are very good to create a buzz on the net for self promotion ... in that case, even if this is a Zasada's car, not so much has been left from the 60's ... good luck.

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Whew...

Glad someone else took honors in being the killjoy.


The lotto mentality does wear thin.

Not so much rust. In the moment the shell is soda blasted, has a brand new floor and most of the bodywork is already repaired by polish company ABCar Oldtimers. There was a vote here in Poland and the readers decided to convert the car into RSR. But it could have some racing history, so we ask for help.

When in doubt, don't touch anything.

Do you have pictures of the car in the current condition?

Also, do you access to the Kardex of the car. This would be your best chance to know the original configuration of this car, and its first owner.

If I'm correct, 119120692 means:
11: 911
9: 1969 MY
1: T
2: Karmann body coupe
0692: Sequential serial number.

Do you know the gearbox number?

The whole restauration process is filmed and listed on yt

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ1...nJAqNGHnsa47bg

I have to ask the owner if he has the gearbox.

No kardex. All we know- the car was registered in Poland on the 30 of june 1969. The next information is from 1999.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank Beck

Whew...

Glad someone else took honors in being the killjoy.


The lotto mentality does wear thin.

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You are a good teacher. :p

That is an interesting find. I have not looked at all of the Utube videos but do you know what colour it was originally?

the original identity of the car as a 1969T Karmann built one is explained above. My records show that a car of that Vin sequence was probably built in October 1968.

It is unclear IF it was originally a competition car or was turned into one at a later stage when it was an old used car (if indeed it ever was a rallye car.)
However it is clear that it was not the Zasada car from 1972 that you were asking about on the other thread or most of the other ones I am aware he drove as he always had the most up to date and most competitive equipment and it does not look like a 1969T would fit that description
.
However he did have many other Porsche rally cars and there were other Polish drivers in the late 60's and 1970's that drove 911's

I have photos and records of many Zasada cars but not many (if any) would fit this cars identity.
It is obviously not the 1967 912 6177 KR
it is not SE 8052 as that was a 1968 911L
it is not the car with Zoll plates 528 Z 8398 used in the 1967 Geneva rally as that was too early
it is not the white 1968 Monte Carlo car S C 9167 (also at 1968 Rally Tchecosvaquie) - that was a 1968 car 118 2 0433
He used a white car on the 1968 Rajd Polski which may also have been S C 9167
It was not S L 2265 which Elford used the 1969 Monte carlo rally and Zasada used at the 1969 Austrian Alpenfahrt and at least one other place: that was 119 300 548
it was not the car from the 1969 Rally Poland S L 2264 (car #100) that was 119 300 530
it was not SR 2971 which he used in the 1970 Rally Poland - that was 911 030 0950

He had a red car S J 3217 on the safari rally in 1969 that was described in the entry just as a "Porsche 911" but it is unlikely to be that.


It was obviously not the 1968 London Sydney 1968 car S H 7987 (11801174) or later cars such as the 1971 safari car (now in the USA) or the 1972 TAP car LEO ZA 29

there was a white car used on the 1968 Rally Vlatava by Stanislaw Dalka & Wlodzimierz Markowski registered WP 2040 and also used by Wlodzimierz Markowski in the 1968 Monte carlo rally
that would be too early to be the car that has been found but it does give names of two other potential people who used 911's at that time in rallies apart from Zasada

I had a little telephone chat with Patryk and he ordered the Kardex, so hopefully we will have some more information. There was a moment i thought it might be Bien's car, registered 25-15KR, but i was told it was a SWB.

Hugh- in the moment i'm 100% sure Zasada's car from the Rally of Poland is 360 0001.

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Originally Posted by Kuba.Huminski

Hugh- in the moment i'm 100% sure Zasada's car from the Rally of Poland is 360 0001.

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Yes, but it was not identified as that at the time its identity was 911 230 0769 at that time - it changed identity after the crash in Poland when that vin was recorded as scrapped at the factory and it was reborn as 911 360 0001 which was initially used for internal testing purposes and was eventually sold to Stanley Palmer in the UK in February 1974 as per the attached invoice. A photo of the car at this time of its life is also shown

Attachment 478137
Attachment 478136

About the colors- during the soda blasting guys found layers of black, green, white, red. The whole story is the registeration of a unknown Porsche in Poland during the middle communist era. We don't think it was possible without Zasada help. Smorawinski said he was only able to buy a racing Porsche with Zasada help.

Is the paint plate still fixed to the car? If so, what is the paint code stamped on it?

Hugh, I'm always impressed by your knowledge, and more important, the way you share it. Thank you :)

I will have futher information about the car on friday, or saturday. Patryk will go to the shop and check the gearbox number and some other stuff.

We will be attentive to the information that comes out. I have seen your videos on youtube and I think you are metal masters! The video of how to make the battery box is incredible and also, thanks Hughh for that great information!

Well not mine. I l'm just one of the volunteers working for the project. But you are right. ABCar are trully handcraft masters.

The number plate is a uk registration from August-December 1968. Why would a lhd car be registered new on the road in the UK (Rhd country) and less than a year later be registered in Poland?

Regards
Mike

The number plate is a polish registeration from the 90s. W stand for Warsaw, XA stand for Srodmiescie District ;-)

That number plate indicates that it would appear to have been first registered in London.
So it would appear that Poland was using the exact same designation registration numbers at exactly the same time as the UK which is very odd. Three letters (location code), three numbers (random) and a final single (year designation) letter. And F is the letter for 1968. Did Poland nick our system then?

Regards
Mike

As i said before. Polish registeration in from about 1996 to 1999. No english story.

Or is it possible for the Audi to be registered in London in 1968?Attachment 478146

Maybe a silly question ... Mr. Zasada is still alive and, afaik, well ... as a very capable entrapreneur, he might have kept a record of his cars ... why not trying to contact him or his representatives directly?

Because simply he doesn't talk about his cars. Maybe because there were few cars with same registeration but without vin/engine numbers matching papers.

Asking Sobieslaw Zasada was the first thing we tried.

BTW- Sobieslaw Zasada is in superb condition. He even competed in a rally for senior drivers this autumn.

OK thx, that's understood ...

Hi there,

This is my first post on this forum. I'm a Porsche enthusiast/owner myself and I've been following the story developing on YouTube (there are already 18 episodes on YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ1...nsa47bg/videos).

Since 99.999% of you do not know Polish, here are some facts they led them to believe that they have found a car with some undiscovered rally history. It has been all summarised in the episode 18:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxigsbJ-0BM

1. The car had once a rollcage fitted (you can watch it from 7:15s on the vid above). You can see the places where the roll cage was attached - on both sides of the car. There are also holes on the sides of the center tunnel (helmet holder maybe ?).

2. They believe the whole roof assembly on this car has been replaced (watch from 21:46s to 28:50s). This is the ONLY unmolested element of the car body. Not a single scratch or dent. This is significant, as the whole car body clearly shows the car was involved in a series of accidents. They go in details why the roof was replaced and how the replacement job differes from the original factory assembly (mainly due to the fact that the car body at the factory is put together is a different order when it is first created; as a result, when doing this kind of job, it is not possible to tack weld the roof it in certain spots, which have to be welded). They even brought another car body from the same era sitting next to it, to show those differencies. They job was done is such an expert fashion, that they argue it must have been done at the Porsche factory (certainly not communist Poland in the 70s).

3. The car has reinforced front cross member (4:05-4:55s), made from a much thicker steel (2.5mm). The front cross member has a tow hook welded in - like in the motorsport cars of the era.

4. The car was fitted with a bigger engine than had originally left the factory with - the round cross beam in the engine bay was reworked (flattened) in the center section to accomodate a 'longer' transmission (5:00-5:23) of a bigger engine. Later cars had this as a standard.

5. The whole car body shows shows excessive wear and tear. There are places where tack welds are completely loose. Also, the whole center tunnel near the front suspension has been pushed up (5:55-6:58s and 7:55-8:20s) and sits out of factory specs. They argue, that that was only possible in a car that was used in mortorsport. Loose welds are not a result of a single accident - the car would have to fall from a bridge. Instead, they are a result of constant stress, hundreds if not thousands of small shocks the suspension and car body was exposed to (during car jumps etc.).

6. The car had some instruments fitted under the dash (7:00-7:15s) as it has series of holes drilled that should not be present. Halda rally computer mounts ?

7. After stripping off paint from the hood and cutting off the underside (please note that the hood was shortened - the whole front was cut off, probably in the 80s, to make the car look like a turbo G model), they have discovered that the hood had halogen holes, that had been plug welded (14:00-15:40). Also, the hood - as the only panel on this car, was once painted matt black. Black hoods were quite common feature on rally cars in the 70s.

In my next post, I will outline why they think that the car MIGHT have been one of the Zasada cars that has been unaccounted for.

There is only one problem. This is not Zasada's car. We were trying to match this car with any of Sobek's csr for a month ;-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kuba.Huminski

There is only one problem. This is not Zasada's car. We were trying to match this car with any of Sobek's csr for a month ;-)

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That is sth we do not know just yet. It seems that Zasada have used many different cars, with different VIN #.

Did Patryk get his Kardex ? Someone mentioned over a month ago that he had already ordered one.

I' m not allowed to discuss about the kardex. In fact we know most of Zasada csr vin nr and none of them matches.

Can you please post gearbox # ?

According to the way that rear mudguards were attached with rivets it could be Michal Damm's Car. Attachment 481288. but who could be the owner before him?1

Damms car vin is known. A guy going to the races in a Rolls Royce with a bus full of young girlfans could allow a new car. Damm was kind of a polish James Hunt.

To compare the photos of PORSCHE ZASADA KW 7707KW after the famous accident, I wonder when the halogen glasses disappeared :D


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