What do you guys think of the new rules? And the first race?
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What do you guys think of the new rules? And the first race?
Are we limited in the total volume of words used and the rate at which we we use them?
Type slowly please or you'll be banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtEgerer
I dont understand why the fuel rate was restricted. Why cant they use the fuel in the tank at whatever rate they please?
Good question-it bit Red Bull today.
Controlling fuel volume and flow just tightens control over the combustion engine and its overall role in the power delivery. In the new formula's hybrid system, volume is the fence, flow is the leash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital K
If I can burn fuel at a faster rate than the next guy, I have found a way to overcome aero drag and potentially create more power from traditional sources.
It's just a statement that the energy recovery systems and aero packages will be where the development is going forward. This formula is more R&D for the future for these manufacturer's as they look to develop next gen powertrain for production cars.
I sure miss the sound of the old ones!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeO2q8FzcnM
One more Motorsport ruined by rules. Let the "Prius type cars" take car of this crap.
Racing should be about the guy who has the balls to go "once more into the void". They are turning racing into a friggin' game
won by the guy who plays with the switches and buttons for an advantage.
You've taken the driver out of the equation.
A friend who worked for Gulfstream told me this afternoon, "if you can push the right buttons in the correct sequence, you too could be a pilot".
Rally racing and motorcycle racing are still the guys that have the biggest balls of all.
At least Hemingway would be happy to know we still have Bull Fighting and Mountaineering.
“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”'
Ernest Hemingway
Stupid. That should just be a biproduct of the quantity of fuel allowed to be used for the duration of the race. How they use it should be up to the race team.Quote:
Originally Posted by beh911
Also not sure how I feel about the "sound" of these things. I like the "experience" of watching, but the cars man.... not as cool.
Three things I thought were interesting-
-For all the talk of how different the spec is this year, Red Bull and Mercedes were still on top. Doesn't bode well for a radically different season.
-No discussion of tires at all! That dominated the season last year. So many other things for the teams to learn in these early races.
-Magnussen!
As I understand it, the electric boost is twice as powerful and can be used five times as long each lap. What I don't know is how much of that boost is run by the software and how much the driver controls it.
The sound...pretty bad, I suppose, but nothing we can do about it.
The idea was actually proposed years ago by Keith Duckworth (one of the men behind the Cosworth DFV- He's the "worth" in Cosworth). He did not include the total fuel used limit, though. Only the rate. Controlling the rate of fuel use controls the power. It drives the team to make the engine more efficient so that they can make more power from the same flow rate of fuel (brake specific fuel consumption).Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital K
The reason he did not like a total fuel limit is that it results in cars slowing to a crawl near the end to save fuel, or running slower than they could. Which is why Group C did not work. If you can use as much total fuel as you need, but limit the rate you use it at, then you are controlling the horsepower while allowing the drivers to go for it the entire race distance.
I think the reason FIA is using a total limit as well is so that you don't have things like the blown diffusers- using fuel at times you normally wouldn't in order to make downforce or something. But maybe I am wrong. They took care of the blown diffusers with the exhaust pipe rules.
hypothetical question, but why not just give manufacturers a displacement, cylinder quantity, an induction type, and in this case an electric motor torque spec, and just see what they can do?
Fuel flow restriction is an easier (by which I mean direct) method to control horsepower. It would allow V12, V10, V8, V6, Flat 6, Flat 4,... anything, any size to compete on equal terms. Even turbo and non-turbo. But the FIA is not making full use of it, because they want everyone to think that the 1.6 liter turbo 4 in their hybrid city car is exactly like a 1.6 liter turbo V6 formula 1 engine (Ferrari would not stand for an inline 4 even though they made their Monza models in the past).Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital K
They don't want another spending race, or another Can-Am with horsepower and speeds climbing beyond what tracks can handle.
meh....... they may not want that, but I do.
Attachment 284932
:eek:
As an engineer, I prefer the simplicity of an all-electric formula (2 components: battery and motor) if the goal is to make F1 a political statement on fuel efficiency, which is what the FIA are doing. This system they're running now is the CFL light bulb of propulsion systems (i.e., take something simple and time-proven and make it uber-complicated, less reliable, more expensive, and with diminished final results).
Attachment 284933Attachment 284935
Wow, I never knew that was inside CFLs. But I must say, I've never had to change a CFL bulb. Still have the one I bought about 6 years ago.
When men were men. Saw a McLaren at Amelia. 1400 pounds, 650- 700 hp. Looked like fun. ONLY a FOOL would drive the car beyond the limits of the track. A "DRIVER" will take it all into account and do what is logical to save the machine and himself to race another day. Darwin should take care of the rest, preferably, before they do harm to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flieger
'These young punks don't have no respect.' WWPWD?:D
Tom
I can only imagine the batteries required to run wide open for 60 laps and a few hours. Maybe they could be additionally powered by boredom and complacency.
"A "DRIVER" will take it all into account and do what is logical to save the machine and himself to race another day. Darwin should take care of the rest, preferably, before they do harm to others."
Have you watched Danica Patrick lately? Here's a fun vid with a collection of comments about her driving.
Seriously though the fastest drivers have no fear. Especially the young ones.
Richard Newton
everyone has fear. we all just have different thresholds.
+1 Kris
And yes; Richard Petty pretty well summed Danica up.
Sorry for all the drivers sans T&A with no ride but blessed with talent.
The diagram for a CFL looks eerily similar to the 2014 F1 propulsion system :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Flieger
Attachment 285002
As a side note: I've actually had 3 CFLs catch fire. That is their mode of failure: overheating of the circuitboard (as opposed to simply severing a filament wire which immediately cuts off the electric current in an incandescent). It melts the plastic housing and turns it brown, but since there are no actual flames the CPSC considers them to be OK :rolleyes: If you ever smell burning plastic inside your house, check the CFLs first. If the white plastic housings are turning yellow or brown, they have been overheating.
For the record, I would love to see a free-for-all F1 again. Or Can-Am. The more technical freedom, the more my interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by sithot
Here is some "old" salve for those who (can) remember.:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucau77iVndk
Thanks for sharing, brought back many memories. I was at the Nurburgring.Quote:
Originally Posted by sithot
I'll buy front row seats!Quote:
Originally Posted by Flieger
Tom
Have no fear, Bernie is on the case. He's going to make the cars sound more like, er, F1 cars.
Ecclestone Horrified By New Sound
Here's Bernie's proposal to the FIA:
<iframe width="700" height="394" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/srMeiwpZcqk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
FOOL. What did he think he was going to hear? That's just ignorant (of the facts). Turbos MUTE exhaust. Nice whoosh-whistle but that's about it. And I've never heard an electric motor that sounded nice. Maybe they'll come up with a way to mount something like "playing cards" on the wheels like we did on our bicycle as kids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tvLe-_TPRY
Tom,
That bicycle card vid is GREAT... those girls have the giggles of experiencing something they never even heard of ....let alone tried.....:D
It's a whole new world all over again....
Once again we're marching backward into the future... ;)
In all fairness to Bernie (if you can put those two words together in the same sentence) I read he understood about the sound problem 2 years ago... and bitched about it for the next year.... I assume he only folded when he realized that the boat had already left... :rolleyes:
And now 'they'll' probably ask him for the answer to the problem he warned them about... :rolleyes:
... and so it goes
I have to say, driving an electric formula car is pretty neat. We were practicing in a parking lot so I had no helmet or race suit, and the bodywork was off. Could see through the tube frame, watch the suspension work and the steering translate my inputs to the wheels. Being electric I did not need earplugs so it was just wind noise, chain noise, tire noise, and a whirr. And no vibration, just smooth, instant torque. It was a lot like riding a bicycle.
They appeal to me, but in a different way to the song of an internal combustion engine.
Couple of thoughts:
1. I have been reading the new Folmer book entitled George Folmer American Wheel Man. For everyone that wants to go back to the days of the Can Am and the other series in the late 60's and early 70's, just remind yourself of all of the great drivers that were lost "back in the day" top speed has been governed for quite sometime now...lap times have gotten quicker as a function of suspension, brake and aero advances...We are living in some sort of fantasy land to think those guys self governed themselves...they did not....what they did was die trying to go as fast as they could
2. As for the Can Am...one of the reasons it was so wild was because "New" technology showed up at just about every race...from the Shadow knee high car to the Sucker car to the 917-10 and 30 that shut things down
3. RE: Sound. I loved the sound of the old engines....in Montreal, you could hear that siren scream all the way across the St. Lawrence, and as hard as it may be to believe, when you are standing right beside the fence...which you can do heading into the hairpin at Montreal, the sound the car makes as it cuts through the wind is almost as piercing as the engine note....New isn't always bad...the first time I heard the Audi turbo diesel at Sebring, it sounded like a sewing machine going by....but what was lost by the engine note was suplanted by the sound of each tire grabbing for grip during heavy braking or exceleration....plus, you could actually hear the suspension pieces working as the car tried to dampen everything that old track threw at it
4. Time marches on. alternative fuel racing cars are the future...love it or loath it. I for one am glad that racing has the possibility of getting back near the front of the curve from a technology standpoint..(It may be as Curt points out, they are taking something simple and making it complicated, but at least it is some progress).....I think all of you guys who yearn for the past have nothing to worry about....NASCAR runs just about every form of motorsports in the US now...so get your fill of those lovely DP cars....ain't the past just wonderful
Somehow, I don't think Montreal this year will be the same...:(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS4Dh_EAfJI
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...zbuVBiJXEcmaIQQuote:
Originally Posted by Dmill
Good grief that vid sums it up. Taken from the same seat, maybe even same opening lap at each race.Quote:
Originally Posted by hgarazo
I hear Melbourne is looking for breach of contract on Bernie for the sound (or lack thereof). It was supposed to be part of the circus they are claiming.
Curious how he will react to this, as I imagine he will claim his hands are tied by engine guidelines defined by FIA that have been in the works for years now...
I guess it comes down to who could screw up a free lunch worse. Them or the redneck racing lobby here. It'd be a close race. No pun intended.
How about a Tesla Cup?
Prius Cup for those on a budget.
this all reminds me of the top gear where the m3 gets better fuel economy on the track than a prius.Quote:
Originally Posted by sithot
http://www.topgear.com/au/videos/compass42
Many people here can choose to buy a new 911, but most are here because they don't. :)
"And now, back to our regularly scheduled programing..."
http://www.motorsportretro.com/2014/...ng-f1-engines/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxVUrb8NyWQ
The Renoir ;)V10 did it for me. I especially like the necessity to manually match revs in heel/toe downshifting.
Cool videos. Thanks for the memories.
The Matra V12.
I came across a piece recently where Mario Andretti waxed philosophical on that being the best sounding engine of all time in F1.
I would put the Ferrari 412 on that list.
oh my god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umO3iqac_4c
Very nice Oak tree guardrails. :eek:
YouTube video and computer speakers do not do it justice, but still ...Quote:
Originally Posted by beh911
<iframe width="750" height="422" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/v9yhbiPC65U?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I shot this pic of the Ligier Matra V12 in 82 (which I think was the last year of the Matra) from the roof of Cobo Hall in Detroit with a 1000mm mirror lens! The sound echoing off those downtown buildings was incredible.
Attachment 285268
where can I hear that car in person? I'm going there. Neat shot too!
I may be in the minority, but I like the new formula 1 just fine. Low downforce, dodgy tires and too much torque is OK. It's a completely new engine formula with relatively new technology. Some details still need to be fine tuned. I was, frankly, surprised that more than half the starters actually finished. While I agree the the engines are perhaps a bit unnecessarily complicated, they are pretty fascinating.
Getting all those systems to work together smoothly will be a big challenge, but also a chance to fine-tune the drivetrain for the drivers who can use it most effectively, not unlike how Vettel tapped the nuances of last year's RB. That's the potential unfair advantage.
The engines don't sound great, but they don't sound bad, either. I like that you can hear some of the other things happening, like the transmissions and tires. And that the engines actually sound a little different from each other. It's not that different from what's been running at Le Mans for a few years now.
Red Bull's problem seems to be not so much dodgy tech (which may well be a problem) as willfully ignoring direct instructions from Charlie Whiting and the FIA, which, right or wrong, is a sure-fire way to attract trouble.
Anything Bernie says is more likely about lining his own pockets than what's good for the sport. I don't like the designated hitter rule, but I don't think it ruins baseball (much) and don't go on about it constantly. Maybe if I were an indicted billionaire I'd feel differently, but...
As a long-time McLaren fan, it was great to see Jenson and "Young Kevin Magnussen" showing some real pace. Now if only they had a title sponsor to pay for all this raciness...
And finally, for the record, I called Alonso for champion just before qually started. My wife and Twitter are witnesses. I don't think they actually have the pace, but Fernando is wily and persistent. Admittedly, it looks like a long-shot now. Time will tell.
with the turbo being run by its own electric motor, I imagine the torque curve can be programmed to not be that much of a problem.
Nicely done.Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtEgerer
I'm surprised they got the BRM to run for over a minute.
That's the piece I was referring to. Intoxicating soundQuote:
Originally Posted by CurtEgerer
Nice photo btw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx-yhg8vTmI
out of all the F1 cars i have owned the noise from the early 2000,s are the most ear splitting
Turbo-chargers are exhaust-gas driven…………….what electric motor ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital K
JZG
The MGU-H (H=heat) recovers heat from the turbo/exhaust and converts it to energy either stored in the battery or sent to power the MGU-K (K=kinetic) directly. The MGU-H also controls the speed of the turbo, so it can speed it up to prevent lag. And F1 cars no longer have 'engines', they have 'power units'.
Attachment 285496
Probably right. The Aussie organizers are already talking about 'breach of contract' in regard to the sound of the cars. I'm sure the lawsuits are being prepared as we speak ...Quote:
Originally Posted by tpdorsey
Mika 's Glorious McLaren MP4 at US Grand Prix... I NEVER NEVER heard anything like that.. It literally Earthquaked the ground a mile away standing still in the paddock OMG AWeosme!!! !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by h-eng
Here's a neat video of a 12 cylinder Ferrari engine. http://www.enginelabs.com/news/watch...e-on-the-dyno/
Note: JE Pistons!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgihUHAHJPQ&feature=player_embedded
There. Now that's a proper F1 engine. Maybe they can digitize the sound and install some sort of onboard speaker systems on the cars to at least give the old guys something to cheer about :D
And I are one of those 'old guys'. Old enough to have seen that engine (OK, an evolution of that engine) in action anyway.
Attachment 285862
it's neat to see those slide throttles.